The Bible is actually a collection of 66 different books written by over 30 different authors in three continents in three languages over a period of 1,500 years which has been carefully complied from reliable copies of the original manuscripts (hand-written documents).
Christians believe that the Bible is both divinely inspired and an accurate record of God’s dealings with man. But many people today question its accuracy. This questioning usually boils down to one of four main questions as follows:
1.Did the events described really happen in the way the eyewitnesses claimed they did?
(Are there errors of fact?)
If the eyewitnesses did not relate the events as they originally occurred, then there are only two possibilities. Either they were mistaken or they deliberately lied.
Individuals may suffer from errors of perception but not whole groups. Unlike the 'revelations' of contemporary cult leaders many of the events described in the Bible were witnessed by more than one person. On examining the accounts we find a remarkable degree of consistency. Consider for example the parallel histories in Kings, Chronicles and the Prophets, the biography of Jesus in the four Gospels or the 500 who were said to have seen Christ after the resurrection. (1 Cor 15:6)
On the other hand would the authors deliberately lie? According to historical tradition, eleven of the twelve disciples of Jesus met a violent death on account of their belief in his resurrection. Would they really have put themselves through such suffering for a faith they knew was false? (1 Cor 15:15-19; 2 Cor 11:23-29)
2.Did the story change before it was written down?
(Are there errors of verbal transmission?)
Many people in our 21st century world of internet, email and word-processing believe that verbally transmitted information could never remain uncontaminated. But an examination of the way stories are passed on in contemporary non-literate societies quickly puts paid to this kind of cultural arrogance. Oral traditions are composed in easily memorable format and are constantly repeated and checked. Some early Muslim converts have memorised over 6,000 verses of the Qu'ran accurately! The capacity of the human memory is astounding as any mother who has read to her children knows.
Despite this, there was no chain of verbal transmission before much of the Bible was committed to writing. The words and deeds of Jesus were clearly recorded by eyewitnesses (2 Pet 1:16; 1 Jn 1:3, 19:35) or at least by those who carefully interviewed them (Lk 1:1-3). The meticulous detail in some of the observations proves their authenticity (Jn 19:34-5; 20:6-7).
3.Is what we have now what was originally written down?
(Are there errors of written transmission?)
Scribes who copied Scripture were meticulous in their attention to detail. One has only to look at old manuscripts like the Book of Kells in the Dublin Trinity College library, or some of the scrolls in the British Museum to see the truth of this. Even if we doubted this fact there are enough early copies of both Old and New Testament documents to show that they have not been changed over the course of time. Entire copies of the New Testament in Greek dating from the 3rd and 4th centuries (Codex Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus) can be viewed today. Some of the earliest fragments (eg John Ryland) date from the lifetime of those who knew the apostles personally. Until last century the earliest Old Testament in Hebrew which we possessed was the Massoretic Text (cAD900). However, the Dead Sea Scrolls discovered at Qumran in the 1940s, (which contain parts of every Old Testament book save one) are 1,000 years older and virtually identical.
When comparisons are made with other documents of antiquity the Bible documents stand alone in terms of authenticating evidence. We know about Julius Caesar (whose existence no-one doubts) from less than a dozen copies of the original documents, the earliest of which post-date his death by 1,000 years. By contrast there are over 5,000 Greek manuscripts alone of New Testament records of the life of Christ and his apostles surviving from the first few hundred years after he walked the streets of Palestine (For more detail on this see here and here)
Apart from the New Testament documents, early Jewish and Roman literature also makes mention of Christ: his teaching, miracles, crucifixion under Tiberius and even the three hours darkness at the time of his death. (see Tacitus, Lucian, Josephus, Suetonius, Pliny and Thallus).
Archeological discoveries have repeatedly confirmed that those who wrote the Bible were consummate historians of the first order. (eg Ezra 6:13-16; Lk 3:1-2)
4.Are there contradictions?
Those who make reference to the 'thousands' of contradictions in the Bible are usually unable to name one. Most genuine contradictions can be attributed to minor errors in hand copying of individual letters or numbers (eg 2 Ch 36:9 cf 2 Ki 24:8) or to verses being taken out of context (eg Mt 7:8 cf Pr 1:28). Others arise when the same story is told from the perspective of different observers (eg Lk 24:1-2 cf Jn 20:1) This is what we would expect. If serial witnesses in court give identical testimonies, one might suspect that the evidence has been fabricated.
Some contradictions may seem at first difficult to account for, but can be explained satisfactorily (eg Judas's mode of death Mt 27:5 cf Acts1:18 and Jesus's genealogy Mt 1:6-16 cf Lk 3:23-31.) Apparent contradictions confirm rather than cast doubt on the Bible's authenticity. They would be carefully edited out in a fake. The fact remains that there is not a single error in the Bible which casts doubt on any significant historical biblical event or doctrine. Whilst accepting that there will always be mysteries, there are reasonable explanations for virtually all the so-called contradictions (See 101 cleared up contradictions)
Throughout the last two thousand years the Bible has withstood vociferous criticism with flying colours.
In my experience those who are most vocal in questioning it reject it, not because of the above reasons (these are just smokescreens!) but for one of five reasons:
1.Hearsay. They have never looked at it but have heard that others reject it.
2.Presuppositions. They believe that miracles cannot happen and because the Bible describes miracles it must therefore be false.
3.Science. They think the Bible makes claims which have been disproved scientifically.
4.Morality. They reject the Bible’s moral teaching especially about sexuality.
5.Personal. They are unwilling to accept the personal implications of the Bible’s teaching.
Adapted from an article I wrote for CMF’s Confident Christianity series
Some Online References for further reading
1. Complete List of 127 New Testament Greek Papyri
2. The historical reliability of the New Testament
3. Complete List of 322 Greek New Testament Uncials (Sections of NT written in majuscule letters on parchment or vellum)
4. Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability
5. 101 cleared-up contradictions in the Bible
6. The Bible's manuscript evidence
7. New Testament miniscules (Sections of NT written in a small, cursive Greek script)
8. Complete List of 2,882 New Testament Greek miniscules
9. List of Hebrew Bible manuscripts
10. List of major textual variants in the New Testament
11. Ten misconceptions about the New Testament Canon
12. Ten facts about the New Testament Canon every Christian should know
Friday, 11 May 2012
Thursday, 10 May 2012
Obama uses Jesus' Sermon on the Mount to justify same sex marriage
US President Obama yesterday gave his endorsement to the legalisation of same-sex marriage.Here is a full transcript of his statement courtesy of Life Site News.
Their report also gives an interesting account of how Obama's views have changed back and forth on this issue over the years.
It is thought that Obama was placed in a position of having to make this statement as his Vice-President Biden had done the same two days earlier. Leading Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney immediately expressed his opposition to legalisation.
I have previously posted my 'Guardian Reader's Guide on Biblical teaching on Sexuality' which takes a different position to that Obama currently holds.
See also my 'Ten Reasons not to legalise same-sex marriage'.
Transcript of Obama's statement
I have to tell you, as I said, I’ve been going through an evolution on this issue. I’ve always been adamant that gay and lesbian Americans should be treated fairly and equally. That’s why in addition to everything we’ve done in this administration — rolling back Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, so that outstanding Americans can serve our country, whether it is no longer defending the Defense Against Marriage Act which tried to federalize what has historically been state law — I’ve stood on side of broader equality for the LGBT community. And, I hesitated on gay marriage in part because I thought civil unions would be sufficient. That that was something that would give people hospital visitation rights and other elements that we take for granted. And I was sensitive to the fact that for a lot of people, the word marriage was something that evokes very powerful traditions, religious beliefs and so forth.
But I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don’t Ask Don’t Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage. At a certain point, I’ve just concluded that for me personally, it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same-sex couples should be able to get married.
Some of this is generational. You know when I go to college campuses, sometimes I talk to college Republicans who think that I have terrible policies on the economy, on foreign policy, but are very clear that when it comes to same sex equality or, you know, sexual orientation that they believe in equality. They are much more comfortable with it. You know, Malia and Sasha, they have friends whose parents are same-sex couples. There have been times where Michelle and I have been sitting around the dinner table and we’re talking about their friends and their parents and Malia and Sasha, it wouldn’t dawn on them that somehow their friends’ parents would be treated differently. It doesn’t make sense to them and frankly, that’s the kind of thing that prompts a change in perspective.
This is something that, you know, we’ve talked about over the years and she, you know, she feels the same way, she feels the same way that I do. And that is that, in the end the values that I care most deeply about and she cares most deeply about is how we treat other people and, you know, I, you know, we are both practicing Christians and obviously this position may be considered to put us at odds with the views of others but, you know, when we think about our faith, the thing at root that we think about is, not only Christ sacrificing himself on our behalf, but it’s also the Golden Rule, you know, treat others the way you would want to be treated. And I think that’s what we try to impart to our kids and that’s what motivates me as president and I figure the most consistent I can be in being true to those precepts, the better I’ll be as a as a dad and a husband and hopefully the better I’ll be as president.
Wednesday, 9 May 2012
Twitter debate on faith, Israel, Mormonism, assurance and deception
I have always liked Shane McKee. I first met him back in the early 1990s when he was a 4th year medical student and part of the Christian medics group at Queen’s, Belfast. I was working with CMF.
He has since turned to the dark side and is now an exponent of what he calls ‘Christian Atheism’ but, like Darth Vader, there is still good in him. Shane is what GK Chesterton might have called a ‘loveable heretic’ (Peace Shane :-))
He is now a consultant geneticist in Northern Ireland and I am still working with CMF.
I last saw him in Belfast back in 2006 when we had a drink together but we have crossed sabres often since both on doctors.net and on twitter. We probably both spend a bit too much time on the latter.
Anyway, Dr John Cosgrove (@DrJohnCosgrove) suggested we should publish some of our conversations so with Shane’s agreement I have pasted one below.
The context is that during the CMF national conference Shane started tweeting using the conference hashtag (#ukcmf12) - secretly we think he wanted to be there and was craving the attention of Christians - so I responded.
The following discussion thread has a couple of branch points but you will get the thrust. We started off talking about how Shane lost his faith and then it kind of meandered off in various other directions.
Shane’s twitter name is @shanemuk and mine is @drpetersaunders
Enjoy
Shane explains how he lost his faith
SM: Any of you #ukcmf12 delegates wondering what the godless heathens are doing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3We_tikbCs:-) #space @TheNiceLadyDoc
SM: Incidentally, came across this song I wrote back in the days I was still a "believer". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpJUDeGktKY Enjoy (or other :-) #ukcmf12
View video
PS: Can't hear the words on this recording Shane. Is it true that you lost your Christian faith in Israel on your elective in 1993?
SM: it was the icing on the cake - you could call it a revelation - a deeper understanding or a rending of the Temple veil :-)
PS: Who was it a revelation from and how did it happen exactly?
SM: a revelation from the evidence - a clearing of Saul Paulus's vision through a glass darkly :-) #Christian #Atheism
PS: So what particular evidence did you encounter in Israel that was the icing on the cake for you?
SM: also, the sheer banality of it all - simutaneously awful, beautiful & fascinating. U been to Bethlehem?
PS: No I haven't. The only literal footsteps of Jesus I've followed were from Tyre to Sidon. btw that's not evidence you've given.
SM: evidence that the "verification" of faith is the same across incompatible religions, ie worthless.
PS: The fact that holders of mutually contradictory worldviews use similar arguments does not mean that all of them must be wrong
SM: No, but it means that you can't use that argument to demonstrate that you specifically are *right*. Back to square one.
PS: Are you saying that all three faiths used 'personal experience' or a sense of God's presence as evidence their beliefs were true?
SM: The precise terminology differs in different religions, but it is the same psychological phenomenon.
PS: So did that then lead you to doubt your own subjective sense of God's presence? Was that the key issue for you? A bit Mormonoid?
SM: not Mormonoid in the least! This subjective feeling was leading people in multiple different ways. Even in Christianity!
PS: No mate it's Mormon.The subjective experience as a test of truth. See Moroni 10:4. Utterly heretical of course. No wonder you fell
SM: It wasn't that I stopped feeling it. It's a human subjective phenomenon. Not valid, contra Saul Paulus.
PS: Perhaps widely touted but it is not an evidence of faith nor reliable assurance and the Bible doesn't teach it is. You were duped!
SM: Of course it's not a clincher point, but if you're saying the voice of HS is not used as an argument, you're wrong, dude!
PS: It's used but not valid as assurance. Biblically assurance is based on belief in JC's death/resurrection,fruit of spirit,obedience
SM: indeed, but none of those are valid either. They're just specific wordings of the same basic subjective flaw.
PS: No the difference is that they are objective tests as well. You can't fake a changed life. It is either there or it isn't.
SM: that's even worse! Muslims claim changed lives too. So do many others. "Fruits of the Spirit" = subjective
SM: the Mormons are, however, pretty special in the crazy stakes ;-) Cross the Pacific in SMin submarines LOL!
PS: Yes I agree but it's a clever deception that's duped many intelligent people including the next republican presidential candidate!
SM: but it's *not* clever - that's the point. People are primed to believe total bullshit, eg Joshua's Long Day
PS: Not clever enough to suck u in mate but the POD didn't need 2 employ that deception.He already had u with another! Why waste ammo!
SM: So what would make you disbelieve?
PS: I'm not sure. But certainly not anything I have yet heard from you, DJ, Dawkins, Hitchens or any of your atheist mates or fans :-)
SM: oh - the P.o.D.! Get it now :-)
PS: The Prince of Darkness mate. Old redsox. The King of Tyre. Abaddon. Apollyon. The Angel of Light. Couldn't get a title to fit 140!
SM: besides, maybe the PoD could change your life to make you *think* you were following the right messiah candidate...
PS: Oh they tried that one on Jesus. No he's not capable of it & anyway his kingdom would then be divided cos he'd be fighting himself
SM: leaving aside the fact that that's silly talk, it's pretty bloody clear that "Jesus's" kingdom is infighting!
PS: The fact that Christians have fallen out over various things since Paul and Barnabas doesn't negate the truth of what Jesus taught
SM: but that's not the point. The point is that you have no basis for the core assertions of Christianity as "fact".
PS: There's sufficient evidence 4 reasonable enquirers but not 4 those with a prior commitment 2 clever deception.Must get to bed ttyl
SM: there's insufficient evidence for anyone interested in what *really* happened, rather than a bedtime story. Night-night! :)
Parallel thread on disbelief
SM: So what would make you disbelieve?
PS: I'm not sure. But certainly not anything I have yet heard from you, DJ, Dawkins, Hitchens or any of your atheist mates or fans :-)
SM: that's OK. What about if you knew that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead?
PS: Well you know what St Paul said.If Jesus didn't rise from the dead then that's the end 4 Christianity. It becomes just another lie
SM: So you're a Paulinian, rather than a Christian? What did Jesus have to say on the topic?
PS: Well Jesus repeatedly said he would be killed and rise from the dead so if he didn't that makes him a false prophet or just wrong.
SM: the reality is that we have very little evidence of what Jesus said about his own death & no indication his disciples knew!
PS: Oh nonsense. Back 2 your old familiar bunker on the gospel accounts once more. But it's all there in Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34 :-)
SM: Irrelevant. ALL Jesusisms filtered through ppl who disagreed like P&B. All with competing agendas.
Parallel thread on the Prince of Darkness
PS: The Prince of Darkness mate. Old redsox. The King of Tyre. Abaddon. Apollyon. The Angel of Light. Couldn't get a title to fit 140!
SM: yep - worked it out :-) Nah- he hasn't got me any more than Santa or Cock Robin. You're too smart for that too.
PS: He's not got Santa or Cock Robin cos they don't exist but he's got you by the balls. Well and truly. You're one of his troops! :-)
SM: how do you know they don't exist?
PS: Oh I don't know for sure. They could exist somewhere we haven't looked or in some parallel universe I guess. But redsox has you!
SM: How do you know that redsox hasn't got *you* and fooled you into thinking he's a messiah? Maybe Ba'al is really God?
PS: Mate you know that Ba'al (if he exists at all) got his comeuppance on Mt Carmel after being mocked and humiliated by Elijah.
SM: but again that's just a story. I'm sure the Baalists would have had similar anecdotes - he was still worshipped into CE!
PS: Well there's one born every minute isn't there! Some people don't require a very elaborate or clever deception to be totally duped
SM: that's what I'm saying. You are living proof. :-)
PS: Mate I wouldn't insult u 2 that degree. I'll concede that the deception that has snared you is one of the best there is. Blessings!
SM: it's not an insult - you're human too. Just remember, it's very very easy to fool humans. That's one lesson from Mormons!
PS: Of course I am. Mate u know that I hold u in the highest regard and care for you deeply. I wouldn't bother debating u otherwise.
SM: did you look at my Church of Jesus Christ Atheist blog? Not much action on it lately…
SM: this is the core issue - we are all just humans, trying to discover & get along. Glass darkly etc :-) 1st priority: truth.
He has since turned to the dark side and is now an exponent of what he calls ‘Christian Atheism’ but, like Darth Vader, there is still good in him. Shane is what GK Chesterton might have called a ‘loveable heretic’ (Peace Shane :-))
He is now a consultant geneticist in Northern Ireland and I am still working with CMF.
I last saw him in Belfast back in 2006 when we had a drink together but we have crossed sabres often since both on doctors.net and on twitter. We probably both spend a bit too much time on the latter.
Anyway, Dr John Cosgrove (@DrJohnCosgrove) suggested we should publish some of our conversations so with Shane’s agreement I have pasted one below.
The context is that during the CMF national conference Shane started tweeting using the conference hashtag (#ukcmf12) - secretly we think he wanted to be there and was craving the attention of Christians - so I responded.
The following discussion thread has a couple of branch points but you will get the thrust. We started off talking about how Shane lost his faith and then it kind of meandered off in various other directions.
Shane’s twitter name is @shanemuk and mine is @drpetersaunders
Enjoy
Shane explains how he lost his faith
SM: Any of you #ukcmf12 delegates wondering what the godless heathens are doing... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3We_tikbCs:-) #space @TheNiceLadyDoc
SM: Incidentally, came across this song I wrote back in the days I was still a "believer". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpJUDeGktKY Enjoy (or other :-) #ukcmf12
View video
PS: Can't hear the words on this recording Shane. Is it true that you lost your Christian faith in Israel on your elective in 1993?
SM: it was the icing on the cake - you could call it a revelation - a deeper understanding or a rending of the Temple veil :-)
PS: Who was it a revelation from and how did it happen exactly?
SM: a revelation from the evidence - a clearing of Saul Paulus's vision through a glass darkly :-) #Christian #Atheism
PS: So what particular evidence did you encounter in Israel that was the icing on the cake for you?
SM: also, the sheer banality of it all - simutaneously awful, beautiful & fascinating. U been to Bethlehem?
PS: No I haven't. The only literal footsteps of Jesus I've followed were from Tyre to Sidon. btw that's not evidence you've given.
SM: evidence that the "verification" of faith is the same across incompatible religions, ie worthless.
PS: The fact that holders of mutually contradictory worldviews use similar arguments does not mean that all of them must be wrong
SM: No, but it means that you can't use that argument to demonstrate that you specifically are *right*. Back to square one.
PS: Are you saying that all three faiths used 'personal experience' or a sense of God's presence as evidence their beliefs were true?
SM: The precise terminology differs in different religions, but it is the same psychological phenomenon.
PS: So did that then lead you to doubt your own subjective sense of God's presence? Was that the key issue for you? A bit Mormonoid?
SM: not Mormonoid in the least! This subjective feeling was leading people in multiple different ways. Even in Christianity!
PS: No mate it's Mormon.The subjective experience as a test of truth. See Moroni 10:4. Utterly heretical of course. No wonder you fell
SM: It wasn't that I stopped feeling it. It's a human subjective phenomenon. Not valid, contra Saul Paulus.
PS: Perhaps widely touted but it is not an evidence of faith nor reliable assurance and the Bible doesn't teach it is. You were duped!
SM: Of course it's not a clincher point, but if you're saying the voice of HS is not used as an argument, you're wrong, dude!
PS: It's used but not valid as assurance. Biblically assurance is based on belief in JC's death/resurrection,fruit of spirit,obedience
SM: indeed, but none of those are valid either. They're just specific wordings of the same basic subjective flaw.
PS: No the difference is that they are objective tests as well. You can't fake a changed life. It is either there or it isn't.
SM: that's even worse! Muslims claim changed lives too. So do many others. "Fruits of the Spirit" = subjective
SM: the Mormons are, however, pretty special in the crazy stakes ;-) Cross the Pacific in SMin submarines LOL!
PS: Yes I agree but it's a clever deception that's duped many intelligent people including the next republican presidential candidate!
SM: but it's *not* clever - that's the point. People are primed to believe total bullshit, eg Joshua's Long Day
PS: Not clever enough to suck u in mate but the POD didn't need 2 employ that deception.He already had u with another! Why waste ammo!
SM: So what would make you disbelieve?
PS: I'm not sure. But certainly not anything I have yet heard from you, DJ, Dawkins, Hitchens or any of your atheist mates or fans :-)
SM: oh - the P.o.D.! Get it now :-)
PS: The Prince of Darkness mate. Old redsox. The King of Tyre. Abaddon. Apollyon. The Angel of Light. Couldn't get a title to fit 140!
SM: besides, maybe the PoD could change your life to make you *think* you were following the right messiah candidate...
PS: Oh they tried that one on Jesus. No he's not capable of it & anyway his kingdom would then be divided cos he'd be fighting himself
SM: leaving aside the fact that that's silly talk, it's pretty bloody clear that "Jesus's" kingdom is infighting!
PS: The fact that Christians have fallen out over various things since Paul and Barnabas doesn't negate the truth of what Jesus taught
SM: but that's not the point. The point is that you have no basis for the core assertions of Christianity as "fact".
PS: There's sufficient evidence 4 reasonable enquirers but not 4 those with a prior commitment 2 clever deception.Must get to bed ttyl
SM: there's insufficient evidence for anyone interested in what *really* happened, rather than a bedtime story. Night-night! :)
Parallel thread on disbelief
SM: So what would make you disbelieve?
PS: I'm not sure. But certainly not anything I have yet heard from you, DJ, Dawkins, Hitchens or any of your atheist mates or fans :-)
SM: that's OK. What about if you knew that Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead?
PS: Well you know what St Paul said.If Jesus didn't rise from the dead then that's the end 4 Christianity. It becomes just another lie
SM: So you're a Paulinian, rather than a Christian? What did Jesus have to say on the topic?
PS: Well Jesus repeatedly said he would be killed and rise from the dead so if he didn't that makes him a false prophet or just wrong.
SM: the reality is that we have very little evidence of what Jesus said about his own death & no indication his disciples knew!
PS: Oh nonsense. Back 2 your old familiar bunker on the gospel accounts once more. But it's all there in Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34 :-)
SM: Irrelevant. ALL Jesusisms filtered through ppl who disagreed like P&B. All with competing agendas.
Parallel thread on the Prince of Darkness
PS: The Prince of Darkness mate. Old redsox. The King of Tyre. Abaddon. Apollyon. The Angel of Light. Couldn't get a title to fit 140!
SM: yep - worked it out :-) Nah- he hasn't got me any more than Santa or Cock Robin. You're too smart for that too.
PS: He's not got Santa or Cock Robin cos they don't exist but he's got you by the balls. Well and truly. You're one of his troops! :-)
SM: how do you know they don't exist?
PS: Oh I don't know for sure. They could exist somewhere we haven't looked or in some parallel universe I guess. But redsox has you!
SM: How do you know that redsox hasn't got *you* and fooled you into thinking he's a messiah? Maybe Ba'al is really God?
PS: Mate you know that Ba'al (if he exists at all) got his comeuppance on Mt Carmel after being mocked and humiliated by Elijah.
SM: but again that's just a story. I'm sure the Baalists would have had similar anecdotes - he was still worshipped into CE!
PS: Well there's one born every minute isn't there! Some people don't require a very elaborate or clever deception to be totally duped
SM: that's what I'm saying. You are living proof. :-)
PS: Mate I wouldn't insult u 2 that degree. I'll concede that the deception that has snared you is one of the best there is. Blessings!
SM: it's not an insult - you're human too. Just remember, it's very very easy to fool humans. That's one lesson from Mormons!
PS: Of course I am. Mate u know that I hold u in the highest regard and care for you deeply. I wouldn't bother debating u otherwise.
SM: did you look at my Church of Jesus Christ Atheist blog? Not much action on it lately…
SM: this is the core issue - we are all just humans, trying to discover & get along. Glass darkly etc :-) 1st priority: truth.
Tuesday, 8 May 2012
Educating women is the key to lowering maternal mortality, says major new international study
The fifth Millennium Development Goal (MDG) put forward by the United Nations (MDG-5) proposes to reduce the world's maternal mortality ratio by 75%, by 2015.
But what is the best way of doing this?
International programmes sponsored by the UK and US governments, and delivered under the auspices of international organisations like the UNFPA (UN Population Fund) and IPPF (International Planned Parenthood Federation), focus on the provision of contraception and ‘safe’ abortion as key priorities.
However a new 50 year follow-up study from Chile has literally blown that hypothesis out of the water and demonstrated that the key determinant of maternal mortality is actually the educational level of women.
Furthermore, one of the most significant findings is that, contrary to widely-held assumptions, making abortion illegal in Chile did not result in an increase in maternal mortality. In fact, after abortion was made illegal in 1989, the MMR continued to decrease from 41.3 to 12.7 per 100,000 live births (69.2% reduction).
The result is that Chile is now doing better with maternal mortality than the United States.
Chile offers an opportunity to investigate the influence of these determinants on maternal mortality trends. Not only are large time series of vital and socioeconomic data available for this country that are of similar quality to those of developed countries, but legislation prohibiting therapeutic abortion was passed in 1989.
As a result, data from Chile provide a rare and unique natural experiment to evaluate the influence of population factors, the legal status of abortion and other historical policies on maternal mortality trends since data are available before and after interventions were implemented.
Another recent report has shown how Ireland and Northern Ireland benefit significantly from their near complete ban on abortion in a number of ways.
The report, 'Ireland’s Gain', links Ireland’s low abortion rate to low incidences of breast cancer and comparative good mental health among women when compared with those in England, Scotland and Wales.
The implications for international policy are clear, but will the lavishly funded birth control and abortion industry take note?
I’ve reproduced below the press release from AAPLOG about the Chilean study which gives more of the detail.
Chile Outperforms US and Dramatically Reduces Maternal Deaths by Increasing Women’s Educational Level
A scientific analysis of 50 years of maternal mortality data from Chile has found that the most important factor in reducing maternal mortality is the educational level of women.
‘Educating women enhances women’s ability to access existing health care resources, including skilled attendants for childbirth, and directly leads to a reduction in her risk of dying during pregnancy and childbirth,’ according to Dr Elard Koch, epidemiologist and leading author of the study.
The research entitled ‘Women’s Education Level, Maternal Health Facilities, Abortion Legislation and Maternal Deaths: a Natural Experiment in Chile from 1957 to 2007’ was conducted on behalf of the Chilean Maternal Mortality Research Initiative (CMMRI) and published in the Friday, May 4 issue of PLoS ONE.
Using 50 years of official data from Chile’s National Institute of Statistics (1957-2007), the authors looked at factors likely to affect maternal mortality, such as years of education, per capita income, total fertility rate, birth order, clean water supply, sanitary sewer, and childbirth delivery by skilled attendants. They also analyse the effect of historical educational and maternal health policies, including legislation that has prohibited abortion in Chile since 1989, on maternal mortality.
During the fifty-year study period, the overall Maternal Mortality Ratio or MMR (the number of maternal deaths related to childbearing divided by the number of live births) dramatically declined by 93.8%, from 270.7 to 18.2 deaths per 100,000 live births between 1957 and 2007, making Chile a paragon for maternal health in other countries. ‘In fact, during 2008, the overall MMR declined again, to 16.5 per 100,000 live births, positioning Chile as the country with the second lowest MMR in the American continent after Canada and with at least two points lower MMR than United States’ said Koch.
One of the most significant findings is that, contrary to widely-held assumptions, making abortion illegal in Chile did not result in an increase in maternal mortality. In fact, after abortion was made illegal in 1989, the MMR continued to decrease from 41.3 to 12.7 per 100,000 live births (69.2% reduction). ‘Definitively, the legal prohibition of abortion is unrelated to overall maternal mortality rates’ emphasized Koch.
The variables affecting this decrease included the predictable factors of delivery by skilled attendants, complementary nutrition for pregnant women and their children in the primary care clinics and schools, clean facilities, and fertility. But the most important factor and the one which increased the effect of all others was the educational level of women. For every additional year of maternal education there was a corresponding decrease in the MMR of 29.3 per 100,000 live births.
The picture for Chile includes a transition of leading causes of death along with an accelerated decline of fertility and delayed motherhood. Koch explained that direct causes –those directly attributable to pregnancy condition– were the rule before 1990, but from then, indirect causes –ie. non-obstetric chronic conditions such as hypertension and diabetes among others– rise as the most prevalent, hindering the decline on maternal mortality.
‘This study uncovers an ongoing “fertility paradox” in maternal health: education is the major modulator that has helped Chile to reach one of the safest motherhood in the world, but also contributes to decrease fertility, excessively delaying motherhood and puts mothers on risk because of their older age.’ Thus, an emerging problem nowadays ‘is not a question of how many children a mother has, but a question of when a mother has her children, specially the first of them’ concluded Koch.
Press Release from American Association of Pro Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists (AAPLOG)
A more complete statement on the study by the study's author is available here
Conclusion by Elard Koch, the main author
Taken together, the Chilean natural experiment over the last fifty years suggests that the progress on maternal health in developing countries is a function of the following factors: an increase in the educational level of women, complementary nutrition for pregnant women and their children in the primary care network and schools, universal access to improved maternal health facilities (early prenatal care, delivery by skilled birth attendants, postnatal care, availability of emergency obstetric units and specialized obstetric care); changes in women's reproductive behaviour enabling them to control their own fertility; and improvements in the sanitary system ie. clean water supply and sanitary sewer access. Furthermore, it is confirmed that women's educational level appears to have an important modulating effect on other variables, especially promoting the utilization of maternal health facilities and modifying the reproductive behaviour. Consequently, it is proposed that these strategies outlined in different MDGs and implemented in different countries may act synergistically and rapidly to decrease maternal deaths in the developing world.
But what is the best way of doing this?
International programmes sponsored by the UK and US governments, and delivered under the auspices of international organisations like the UNFPA (UN Population Fund) and IPPF (International Planned Parenthood Federation), focus on the provision of contraception and ‘safe’ abortion as key priorities.
However a new 50 year follow-up study from Chile has literally blown that hypothesis out of the water and demonstrated that the key determinant of maternal mortality is actually the educational level of women.
Furthermore, one of the most significant findings is that, contrary to widely-held assumptions, making abortion illegal in Chile did not result in an increase in maternal mortality. In fact, after abortion was made illegal in 1989, the MMR continued to decrease from 41.3 to 12.7 per 100,000 live births (69.2% reduction).
The result is that Chile is now doing better with maternal mortality than the United States.
Chile offers an opportunity to investigate the influence of these determinants on maternal mortality trends. Not only are large time series of vital and socioeconomic data available for this country that are of similar quality to those of developed countries, but legislation prohibiting therapeutic abortion was passed in 1989.
As a result, data from Chile provide a rare and unique natural experiment to evaluate the influence of population factors, the legal status of abortion and other historical policies on maternal mortality trends since data are available before and after interventions were implemented.
Another recent report has shown how Ireland and Northern Ireland benefit significantly from their near complete ban on abortion in a number of ways.
The report, 'Ireland’s Gain', links Ireland’s low abortion rate to low incidences of breast cancer and comparative good mental health among women when compared with those in England, Scotland and Wales.
The implications for international policy are clear, but will the lavishly funded birth control and abortion industry take note?
I’ve reproduced below the press release from AAPLOG about the Chilean study which gives more of the detail.
Chile Outperforms US and Dramatically Reduces Maternal Deaths by Increasing Women’s Educational Level
A scientific analysis of 50 years of maternal mortality data from Chile has found that the most important factor in reducing maternal mortality is the educational level of women.
‘Educating women enhances women’s ability to access existing health care resources, including skilled attendants for childbirth, and directly leads to a reduction in her risk of dying during pregnancy and childbirth,’ according to Dr Elard Koch, epidemiologist and leading author of the study.
The research entitled ‘Women’s Education Level, Maternal Health Facilities, Abortion Legislation and Maternal Deaths: a Natural Experiment in Chile from 1957 to 2007’ was conducted on behalf of the Chilean Maternal Mortality Research Initiative (CMMRI) and published in the Friday, May 4 issue of PLoS ONE.
Using 50 years of official data from Chile’s National Institute of Statistics (1957-2007), the authors looked at factors likely to affect maternal mortality, such as years of education, per capita income, total fertility rate, birth order, clean water supply, sanitary sewer, and childbirth delivery by skilled attendants. They also analyse the effect of historical educational and maternal health policies, including legislation that has prohibited abortion in Chile since 1989, on maternal mortality.
During the fifty-year study period, the overall Maternal Mortality Ratio or MMR (the number of maternal deaths related to childbearing divided by the number of live births) dramatically declined by 93.8%, from 270.7 to 18.2 deaths per 100,000 live births between 1957 and 2007, making Chile a paragon for maternal health in other countries. ‘In fact, during 2008, the overall MMR declined again, to 16.5 per 100,000 live births, positioning Chile as the country with the second lowest MMR in the American continent after Canada and with at least two points lower MMR than United States’ said Koch.
One of the most significant findings is that, contrary to widely-held assumptions, making abortion illegal in Chile did not result in an increase in maternal mortality. In fact, after abortion was made illegal in 1989, the MMR continued to decrease from 41.3 to 12.7 per 100,000 live births (69.2% reduction). ‘Definitively, the legal prohibition of abortion is unrelated to overall maternal mortality rates’ emphasized Koch.
The variables affecting this decrease included the predictable factors of delivery by skilled attendants, complementary nutrition for pregnant women and their children in the primary care clinics and schools, clean facilities, and fertility. But the most important factor and the one which increased the effect of all others was the educational level of women. For every additional year of maternal education there was a corresponding decrease in the MMR of 29.3 per 100,000 live births.
The picture for Chile includes a transition of leading causes of death along with an accelerated decline of fertility and delayed motherhood. Koch explained that direct causes –those directly attributable to pregnancy condition– were the rule before 1990, but from then, indirect causes –ie. non-obstetric chronic conditions such as hypertension and diabetes among others– rise as the most prevalent, hindering the decline on maternal mortality.
‘This study uncovers an ongoing “fertility paradox” in maternal health: education is the major modulator that has helped Chile to reach one of the safest motherhood in the world, but also contributes to decrease fertility, excessively delaying motherhood and puts mothers on risk because of their older age.’ Thus, an emerging problem nowadays ‘is not a question of how many children a mother has, but a question of when a mother has her children, specially the first of them’ concluded Koch.
Press Release from American Association of Pro Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists (AAPLOG)
A more complete statement on the study by the study's author is available here
Conclusion by Elard Koch, the main author
Taken together, the Chilean natural experiment over the last fifty years suggests that the progress on maternal health in developing countries is a function of the following factors: an increase in the educational level of women, complementary nutrition for pregnant women and their children in the primary care network and schools, universal access to improved maternal health facilities (early prenatal care, delivery by skilled birth attendants, postnatal care, availability of emergency obstetric units and specialized obstetric care); changes in women's reproductive behaviour enabling them to control their own fertility; and improvements in the sanitary system ie. clean water supply and sanitary sewer access. Furthermore, it is confirmed that women's educational level appears to have an important modulating effect on other variables, especially promoting the utilization of maternal health facilities and modifying the reproductive behaviour. Consequently, it is proposed that these strategies outlined in different MDGs and implemented in different countries may act synergistically and rapidly to decrease maternal deaths in the developing world.
Monday, 7 May 2012
The Christian Gospel simply explained for sincere enquirers
Contrary to popular opinion, this is in fact God's world whether or not people believe it. God created the universe and everything in it including you and me. He placed us on the world at this particular point in history.
Christians believe this about God because we believe that he has clearly made himself known. He is not a God who is playing silly games with us. Whether or not people choose to recognise this, Christians believe that God uniquely revealed himself in the historic person of Jesus Christ.
The whole idea of God taking on human flesh and coming into our world, which is the major contention of Christianity, does at first glance seem singularly unlikely. However, an illustration of C S Lewis is helpful at this point. Lewis asks the question how a creature can have a meaningful encounter with his creator. He takes the example of Shakespeare and Hamlet. He asks how these two people could possibly meet and concludes that there is no way that Hamlet can bring about a meeting with Shakespeare. It is quite outside his sphere of possibilities and in fact the only way these two people could meet is if Shakespeare had taken the initiative and written himself into the play as one of its characters; there on the stage Shakespeare could meet Hamlet. The analogy is obvious.
Christians believe that God has done what men could not possibly do, that he has written himself into the script of history as its foremost figure. Here, God confronts man. Jesus does not walk as a man among equals, but stands among them as their rightful Lord, the King of all creation. We believe this fact to have been clearly demonstrated by his resurrection from the dead.
None of us lives as though this were the state of affairs. All men without exception, including the most religious of men, have rebelled against the rule and authority of the King. None of us has lived in God's world the way he intends us to. The rebellion may be active hostility against God, or it may equally well be passive indifference.
God says to man the only thing you would expect in such circumstances and that is, 'Stop rebelling, this is not your world but mine. Therefore live in it my way!'
If we do not surrender but continue to strut about God's world as if we owned the place, doing our own thing and playing king in our own little worlds, then at the end of the day, God will be God and rebels will be overthrown.
But if we do stop rebelling and come before the Lord of the universe in humble surrender we are no longer treated as rebels and a general amnesty is declared. This complete forgiveness and acceptance by God is made possible by Christ's historic death on the cross, for it was there that he took on himself the punishment that our rebellion deserves. Furthermore, we are no longer treated as rebels, but we are adopted as his sons and daughters and come into an altogether new relationship with the God who made us. We respond to God's offer through repentance (turning from things we know to be wrong) and faith (believing in and committing our lives to Christ).
In summary therefore, the first proposition is that we know that God exists because he has clearly revealed himself in the historic person of Jesus Christ, who is the rightful king of the universe. Secondly, all men are rebellious to the idea that God has a right to rule their life. Thirdly, God tells us to stop rebelling. Fourthly, if we continue to run our own lives and reject his authority, God will be God over us and we will ultimately be overthrown. Fifthly, if we do surrender, we are no longer treated as rebels but are welcomed into a new relationship as his adopted sons and daughters.
(Adapted from Confident Christianity)
Christians believe this about God because we believe that he has clearly made himself known. He is not a God who is playing silly games with us. Whether or not people choose to recognise this, Christians believe that God uniquely revealed himself in the historic person of Jesus Christ.
The whole idea of God taking on human flesh and coming into our world, which is the major contention of Christianity, does at first glance seem singularly unlikely. However, an illustration of C S Lewis is helpful at this point. Lewis asks the question how a creature can have a meaningful encounter with his creator. He takes the example of Shakespeare and Hamlet. He asks how these two people could possibly meet and concludes that there is no way that Hamlet can bring about a meeting with Shakespeare. It is quite outside his sphere of possibilities and in fact the only way these two people could meet is if Shakespeare had taken the initiative and written himself into the play as one of its characters; there on the stage Shakespeare could meet Hamlet. The analogy is obvious.
Christians believe that God has done what men could not possibly do, that he has written himself into the script of history as its foremost figure. Here, God confronts man. Jesus does not walk as a man among equals, but stands among them as their rightful Lord, the King of all creation. We believe this fact to have been clearly demonstrated by his resurrection from the dead.
None of us lives as though this were the state of affairs. All men without exception, including the most religious of men, have rebelled against the rule and authority of the King. None of us has lived in God's world the way he intends us to. The rebellion may be active hostility against God, or it may equally well be passive indifference.
God says to man the only thing you would expect in such circumstances and that is, 'Stop rebelling, this is not your world but mine. Therefore live in it my way!'
If we do not surrender but continue to strut about God's world as if we owned the place, doing our own thing and playing king in our own little worlds, then at the end of the day, God will be God and rebels will be overthrown.
But if we do stop rebelling and come before the Lord of the universe in humble surrender we are no longer treated as rebels and a general amnesty is declared. This complete forgiveness and acceptance by God is made possible by Christ's historic death on the cross, for it was there that he took on himself the punishment that our rebellion deserves. Furthermore, we are no longer treated as rebels, but we are adopted as his sons and daughters and come into an altogether new relationship with the God who made us. We respond to God's offer through repentance (turning from things we know to be wrong) and faith (believing in and committing our lives to Christ).
In summary therefore, the first proposition is that we know that God exists because he has clearly revealed himself in the historic person of Jesus Christ, who is the rightful king of the universe. Secondly, all men are rebellious to the idea that God has a right to rule their life. Thirdly, God tells us to stop rebelling. Fourthly, if we continue to run our own lives and reject his authority, God will be God over us and we will ultimately be overthrown. Fifthly, if we do surrender, we are no longer treated as rebels but are welcomed into a new relationship as his adopted sons and daughters.
(Adapted from Confident Christianity)
Why Christians don’t say what they really believe about sex on Twitter
This morning, after the Coalition for Marriage Petition gained its 500,000th signature, and in response to an article in Pink News trying to undermine #C4M’s credibility, I sent out two tweets from my twitter account (@drpetersaunders) announcing the new milestone.
The first (admittedly provocative) tweet read as follows:
Growing paranoia from @pinknews over having its small unrepresentative cyber-community trounced by #c4m petition http://bit.ly/J6HnFh
The second was a ‘retweet’ from Archbishop Cranmer (@his_grace)
And many congratulations to the Coalition for Marriage @c4mtweetsfor reaching 500,000 supporters http://c4m.org.uk/?cranmer
As a result for the last nine hours I have been under constant siege from the several hundred secular twitterati who track my every move.
As I usually do, I have ignored frankly abusive comments but have attempted otherwise to take questions and comments at face value and do my best to answer them honestly and politely, but firmly and, as appropriate, with good humour.
Many of the responses have been in the same spirit, robustly but respectfully disagreeing with me. There has been a lot of mutual ribbing too and as is usual, certain members of the twitterati have taken great delight in retweeting some of my 140 character utterances to their adoring followers in order to demonstrate how self-evidently foolish I am.
This is all par for the course on Twitter. You can read the various conversations on my twitter page by clicking ‘view conversation’ on each tweet
Some of the twitterati have also tried to draw me out by asking specific questions that they know will elicit answers which will draw the baying mob most effectively.
Today I sent out two tweets in response to specific questions from a Dr David Jones (@welsh_gas_doc) that really sent the mob into a wild frenzy. As you will see he is copied into most of the ensuing tweets. My tweets read as follows:
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage All people are sinners (Romans 3:23) and also all sex outside marriage is morally wrong
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Both were simply factual statements about orthodox Christian belief. In days past, such statements would have been met generally with a reaction of patronising incredulity or even pity that someone could hold such unenlightened and antiquated, even quaint, views.
But today the sort of reaction such statements elicit explains I think why so few Christians ever talk about what they actually believe on twitter – at least about sex.
I’m pretty much used to this kind of stuff now and put up with it largely because I get a lot of traffic to this blog as a result from those who silently listen in to the conversations.
Anyway, for what it is worth, here is a selection of some of the more offensive tweets I have received today. I am frequently called a 'homophobic bigot' (although I prefer to think of myself as 'homosceptic') but as you will see some of these go a bit further than that. I haven’t replied to any of them.
For those unfamiliar with twitter, each begins with the name and account of the person sending the tweet. As you will see, some people appear more than once.
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage you are such a terrible small minded person, I'm staggered by your hypocrisy, call yourself christian!!
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage just admit you're a bigot and we can all just continue fighting the cause without your input, thank you
lisa pawson @emmliss
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders what a horrible out of touch man
Sarah Guest @sarah_gue5t
@jjswin @drpetersaunders ghetto??? Wot a shallow pathetic little man u are, I'm straight, live in the countryside #C4EM all the way! #twat
Sara O'Brian @Sara_OBrian
@drpetersaunders Shut up you stupid old bastard you won't be around to see marriage equality so pipe down.
Alex Graham @Rangaaar
@drpetersaunders I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a representative to lots of people, why are you so poisonous?
Lizzie P-B @LizzieMansfield
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders @mcgingersnap one day the gay community will receive a public apology from these homophobes. #c4em
Johnathon Waples @JohnathonWaples
@drpetersaunders But srsly? A civil partnership isn't equal. I hope your HATE for people who just want to be HAPPY makes you sleep at night.
Lorrie Hearts @LorrieHearts
@drpetersaunders: Smiley enough in his picture but he'd cut off your equal rights as soon as look at you. Not my kind of doctor.
Ollie James @OJB_clough
@drpetersaunders you're a massive cunt
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @UK_CMF @UCBMedia absolutley vile, no doubt you agree with Stephen Green on marital rape as well #OUTDATEDBADCHRISTIAN
The George @kaptainkrucius
@drpetersaunders no I merely stated that none of my friends were bigots like you. It was you who suggested I need to get out more.
Russell Norton @russyork
I find the opinions of @drpetersaunders scary. I would be terrified if he were my doctor, clearly has no idea about equal treatment #bigot
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders utter tripe! thank GOD only the Daily Mail reports your offensive crap!!
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage i fear if any of your children are gay, terrible things happen when you preach hate #BADCHRISTIANS
dam robinson @damrobinson
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage this straight, 2.4 kids dad agrees with equal marriage but not your small minded bigoted intolerance
Adam Kay @amateuradam
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage I often have a wank to @drpetersaunders' avatar. That's still fine, right?
Rob Ward @PocketaPocketa
@drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc @C4EqualMarriage I feel sorry for you &your hindbound soul both. Still, it's never too late for ppl to grow.
Chris H @chris_m_h
@drpetersaunders (cc to @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage) Dr Peters, your discriminatory, prejudiced opinions are disgusting.
Dr_PaulC @Dr_PaulC
@drpetersaunders drag your bigoted ass out of the dark ages. @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage
Mr Stefani to you! @Glen_Stefani
@feekelife @drpetersaunders FUCK ME! How in this wonderful world can these ignorant morons peddle this hatred? Hang your head in SHAME!
Chris Wallace @CJWallace91
@drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage Are you a medical doctor? If so, you're a disgrace to the profession.
Mrs Mackenzie @loftspace
@welsh_gas_doc @marty_hogg I thought @drpetersaunders must be a spoof account. He's real? Scary shit.
Shaun Lawrence @BigGayShaun
Want to see how some Christians regard LGBT people? I suggest dipping in to the mind of @drpetersaunders. What an intolerant person he is.
Stuart Sutton @StuSutton
@welsh_gas_doc @icuchris @drpetersaunders thank goodness he's not practicing. I would think a referral to @gmcuk appropriate if he was.
Wendy Lee @TheRealBaglady
@welsh_gas_doc @ICUchris @drpetersaunders Pretty terrifying that someone so judgemental would ever be let loose on people with a scalpel.
Shaun Lawrence @BigGayShaun
@welsh_gas_doc Frightening that people still think like @drpetersaunders but one ought to know one's enemy so I'm paying close attention.
ICU Chris @ICUchris
@welsh_gas_doc @deeteeuk @marty_hogg @drpetersaunders Does my tax money pay his wages? How do I stop this?
ICU Chris @ICUchris
@amateuradam @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage @drpetersaunders I bet you eat shrimp too, you godless heathen.
Paul Southworth @PaulMSouthworth
@DeeTeeUK @marty_hogg @drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc I hope they take a good deal of comfort from the people pointing out he's a twerp.
ThomThom @ThomJONeill
@drpetersaunders What of the kids who kill themselves because of the attitudes of people like you? Is your faith REALLY worth that?
Ruairi Doran @RuDoran
@welsh_gas_doc @drpetersaunders @nhs_hca @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage Is he quoting the Bible again? That doctor is sick. *notadoctor*
Heather @Spleather
Actually shocked that @drpetersaunders is allowed to be a medical professional with the unacceptably homophobic beliefs he holds
Owen Blacker @owenblacker
Wow. What an unChristian arsehole. RT @drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Kris Manuel @kris_manuel
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders @c4mtweets what a prick!!!
Mike Ward @Schroedinger99
@zeno001 & I'm free to think he's an irrational evil misogynistic homophobe @anarchic_teapot @C4EqualMarriage
Will Jensen @mrwilliamjensen
@drpetersaunders This man believes its wrong for same sex sex!!! Tweet him and tell him he's wrong and should give it a go some time!!!! :-)
Alex Scott @alexscott292
@anarchic_teapot @drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc to be fair, it's big bumper book of bollocks he's got to thumb through to get the answer.
Owen Blacker @owenblacker
@helliewm @drpetersaunders Indeed. Sinners like him give Christians a bad name.
helliewm @helliewm
@owenblacker @drpetersaunders Yes Owen my news feed is full of it. The medics in my news feed are getting annoyed too. He is just a bigot IMO
Jason @Lewishamdreamer
@drpetersaunders I call you out as a liar. Based on my last retweet.@Spleather
G* @georgie_guy
That's a shame; it's just so good! RT @drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Sam Beezley @sambeezley
Only if you don't know how to do it "@drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong"
Alex Scott @alexscott292
@drpetersaunders eight. How is it relevant to your fulminating homophobia?
Bagguley @bagguley
@drpetersaunders @shanemuk @andyheeps How can anyone believe such obvious horse-shit-superstitious-nonsense? Grow up ffs.
Adam Banks @adambanksdotcom
Police officers can't be active members of the BNP, but @drpetersaunders can practise medicine. This isn't sustainable
Matthew Tibbit @MTibbit
@LeyNathan I look at his page when you retweet him and I fancy a laugh but I can't bring myself to follow the idiot @drpetersaunders
bagguley @Bagguley
@drpetersaunders @shanemuk @AbbieKWalsh @andyheeps @TheNiceLadyDoc You really believe this fantasy bullshit dontcha. You are delusional.
Alex Scott @alexscott292
It strikes me I could write whatever prejudiced, unreconstructed maliciousness and rename it something like @drpetersaunders "homosceptic"
The first (admittedly provocative) tweet read as follows:
Growing paranoia from @pinknews over having its small unrepresentative cyber-community trounced by #c4m petition http://bit.ly/J6HnFh
The second was a ‘retweet’ from Archbishop Cranmer (@his_grace)
And many congratulations to the Coalition for Marriage @c4mtweetsfor reaching 500,000 supporters http://c4m.org.uk/?cranmer
As a result for the last nine hours I have been under constant siege from the several hundred secular twitterati who track my every move.
As I usually do, I have ignored frankly abusive comments but have attempted otherwise to take questions and comments at face value and do my best to answer them honestly and politely, but firmly and, as appropriate, with good humour.
Many of the responses have been in the same spirit, robustly but respectfully disagreeing with me. There has been a lot of mutual ribbing too and as is usual, certain members of the twitterati have taken great delight in retweeting some of my 140 character utterances to their adoring followers in order to demonstrate how self-evidently foolish I am.
This is all par for the course on Twitter. You can read the various conversations on my twitter page by clicking ‘view conversation’ on each tweet
Some of the twitterati have also tried to draw me out by asking specific questions that they know will elicit answers which will draw the baying mob most effectively.
Today I sent out two tweets in response to specific questions from a Dr David Jones (@welsh_gas_doc) that really sent the mob into a wild frenzy. As you will see he is copied into most of the ensuing tweets. My tweets read as follows:
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage All people are sinners (Romans 3:23) and also all sex outside marriage is morally wrong
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Both were simply factual statements about orthodox Christian belief. In days past, such statements would have been met generally with a reaction of patronising incredulity or even pity that someone could hold such unenlightened and antiquated, even quaint, views.
But today the sort of reaction such statements elicit explains I think why so few Christians ever talk about what they actually believe on twitter – at least about sex.
I’m pretty much used to this kind of stuff now and put up with it largely because I get a lot of traffic to this blog as a result from those who silently listen in to the conversations.
Anyway, for what it is worth, here is a selection of some of the more offensive tweets I have received today. I am frequently called a 'homophobic bigot' (although I prefer to think of myself as 'homosceptic') but as you will see some of these go a bit further than that. I haven’t replied to any of them.
For those unfamiliar with twitter, each begins with the name and account of the person sending the tweet. As you will see, some people appear more than once.
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage you are such a terrible small minded person, I'm staggered by your hypocrisy, call yourself christian!!
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage just admit you're a bigot and we can all just continue fighting the cause without your input, thank you
lisa pawson @emmliss
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders what a horrible out of touch man
Sarah Guest @sarah_gue5t
@jjswin @drpetersaunders ghetto??? Wot a shallow pathetic little man u are, I'm straight, live in the countryside #C4EM all the way! #twat
Sara O'Brian @Sara_OBrian
@drpetersaunders Shut up you stupid old bastard you won't be around to see marriage equality so pipe down.
Alex Graham @Rangaaar
@drpetersaunders I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt, but as a representative to lots of people, why are you so poisonous?
Lizzie P-B @LizzieMansfield
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders @mcgingersnap one day the gay community will receive a public apology from these homophobes. #c4em
Johnathon Waples @JohnathonWaples
@drpetersaunders But srsly? A civil partnership isn't equal. I hope your HATE for people who just want to be HAPPY makes you sleep at night.
Lorrie Hearts @LorrieHearts
@drpetersaunders: Smiley enough in his picture but he'd cut off your equal rights as soon as look at you. Not my kind of doctor.
Ollie James @OJB_clough
@drpetersaunders you're a massive cunt
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @UK_CMF @UCBMedia absolutley vile, no doubt you agree with Stephen Green on marital rape as well #OUTDATEDBADCHRISTIAN
The George @kaptainkrucius
@drpetersaunders no I merely stated that none of my friends were bigots like you. It was you who suggested I need to get out more.
Russell Norton @russyork
I find the opinions of @drpetersaunders scary. I would be terrified if he were my doctor, clearly has no idea about equal treatment #bigot
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders utter tripe! thank GOD only the Daily Mail reports your offensive crap!!
Simon Feeke @feekelife
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage i fear if any of your children are gay, terrible things happen when you preach hate #BADCHRISTIANS
dam robinson @damrobinson
@drpetersaunders @C4EqualMarriage this straight, 2.4 kids dad agrees with equal marriage but not your small minded bigoted intolerance
Adam Kay @amateuradam
@welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage I often have a wank to @drpetersaunders' avatar. That's still fine, right?
Rob Ward @PocketaPocketa
@drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc @C4EqualMarriage I feel sorry for you &your hindbound soul both. Still, it's never too late for ppl to grow.
Chris H @chris_m_h
@drpetersaunders (cc to @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage) Dr Peters, your discriminatory, prejudiced opinions are disgusting.
Dr_PaulC @Dr_PaulC
@drpetersaunders drag your bigoted ass out of the dark ages. @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa @c4equalmarriage
Mr Stefani to you! @Glen_Stefani
@feekelife @drpetersaunders FUCK ME! How in this wonderful world can these ignorant morons peddle this hatred? Hang your head in SHAME!
Chris Wallace @CJWallace91
@drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage Are you a medical doctor? If so, you're a disgrace to the profession.
Mrs Mackenzie @loftspace
@welsh_gas_doc @marty_hogg I thought @drpetersaunders must be a spoof account. He's real? Scary shit.
Shaun Lawrence @BigGayShaun
Want to see how some Christians regard LGBT people? I suggest dipping in to the mind of @drpetersaunders. What an intolerant person he is.
Stuart Sutton @StuSutton
@welsh_gas_doc @icuchris @drpetersaunders thank goodness he's not practicing. I would think a referral to @gmcuk appropriate if he was.
Wendy Lee @TheRealBaglady
@welsh_gas_doc @ICUchris @drpetersaunders Pretty terrifying that someone so judgemental would ever be let loose on people with a scalpel.
Shaun Lawrence @BigGayShaun
@welsh_gas_doc Frightening that people still think like @drpetersaunders but one ought to know one's enemy so I'm paying close attention.
ICU Chris @ICUchris
@welsh_gas_doc @deeteeuk @marty_hogg @drpetersaunders Does my tax money pay his wages? How do I stop this?
ICU Chris @ICUchris
@amateuradam @welsh_gas_doc @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage @drpetersaunders I bet you eat shrimp too, you godless heathen.
Paul Southworth @PaulMSouthworth
@DeeTeeUK @marty_hogg @drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc I hope they take a good deal of comfort from the people pointing out he's a twerp.
ThomThom @ThomJONeill
@drpetersaunders What of the kids who kill themselves because of the attitudes of people like you? Is your faith REALLY worth that?
Ruairi Doran @RuDoran
@welsh_gas_doc @drpetersaunders @nhs_hca @pocketapocketa@c4equalmarriage Is he quoting the Bible again? That doctor is sick. *notadoctor*
Heather @Spleather
Actually shocked that @drpetersaunders is allowed to be a medical professional with the unacceptably homophobic beliefs he holds
Owen Blacker @owenblacker
Wow. What an unChristian arsehole. RT @drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Kris Manuel @kris_manuel
@C4EqualMarriage @drpetersaunders @c4mtweets what a prick!!!
Mike Ward @Schroedinger99
@zeno001 & I'm free to think he's an irrational evil misogynistic homophobe @anarchic_teapot @C4EqualMarriage
Will Jensen @mrwilliamjensen
@drpetersaunders This man believes its wrong for same sex sex!!! Tweet him and tell him he's wrong and should give it a go some time!!!! :-)
Alex Scott @alexscott292
@anarchic_teapot @drpetersaunders @welsh_gas_doc to be fair, it's big bumper book of bollocks he's got to thumb through to get the answer.
Owen Blacker @owenblacker
@helliewm @drpetersaunders Indeed. Sinners like him give Christians a bad name.
helliewm @helliewm
@owenblacker @drpetersaunders Yes Owen my news feed is full of it. The medics in my news feed are getting annoyed too. He is just a bigot IMO
Jason @Lewishamdreamer
@drpetersaunders I call you out as a liar. Based on my last retweet.@Spleather
G* @georgie_guy
That's a shame; it's just so good! RT @drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong
Sam Beezley @sambeezley
Only if you don't know how to do it "@drpetersaunders: Yes David. Sex between two people of the same sex - male or female - is always wrong"
Alex Scott @alexscott292
@drpetersaunders eight. How is it relevant to your fulminating homophobia?
Bagguley @bagguley
@drpetersaunders @shanemuk @andyheeps How can anyone believe such obvious horse-shit-superstitious-nonsense? Grow up ffs.
Adam Banks @adambanksdotcom
Police officers can't be active members of the BNP, but @drpetersaunders can practise medicine. This isn't sustainable
Matthew Tibbit @MTibbit
@LeyNathan I look at his page when you retweet him and I fancy a laugh but I can't bring myself to follow the idiot @drpetersaunders
bagguley @Bagguley
@drpetersaunders @shanemuk @AbbieKWalsh @andyheeps @TheNiceLadyDoc You really believe this fantasy bullshit dontcha. You are delusional.
Alex Scott @alexscott292
It strikes me I could write whatever prejudiced, unreconstructed maliciousness and rename it something like @drpetersaunders "homosceptic"
A short five point explanation of the Christian Gospel
GOD (Rules) God really exists! He made the world, and that includes you and me. We believe this because he has clearly revealed himself in the historic person of Jesus Christ whom he raised from the dead. Jesus is the rightful ruler of the world.
See Gen 1:1; Mt 28:18; Phil 2:9-11.
MAN (Rebel) None of us has lived consistently as though this was the state of affairs. We have all by degree assumed that we have the right to run our own lives. Sometimes we have consciously disobeyed God; at other times we have just ignored him. It amounts to the same thing, rebellion.
See Mk 7:21-23; Rom 3:12; 1 Jn 3:4.
GOD (Repent) In Christ, God tells us that this is not our world to live in according to our selfish desires. It is God's world. Therefore we should stop rebelling against him and live in the world the way he has designed us to live in it. He calls us to come into his 'Kingdom', that is to submit to his kingly rule in our lives.
See Mt 7:21; Mk 1:14,15; Acts 17:30.
WHAT IF I DON'T? (Unforgiven) If we refuse God's offer of forgiveness and reconciliation, we will remain unforgiven and unreconciled. Ultimately, rebels will be overthrown.
See Mt 7:23,26,27; Rom 1:18; 2 Thess 1:8,9.
WHAT IF I DO? (Forgiven) If we stop rebelling and bring our lives under God's rule, he treats us as though we had never rebelled against him. He accepts us wholeheartedly because Jesus in dying on the cross took upon himself the punishment we deserve. A whole new relationship with God then opens up. We become his friends and are adopted into his family and will live with him for all eternity after death in the glorious new world that is coming.
See Jn 3:16; Rom 6:23, 8:1,15; Col 2:14.
See Gen 1:1; Mt 28:18; Phil 2:9-11.
MAN (Rebel) None of us has lived consistently as though this was the state of affairs. We have all by degree assumed that we have the right to run our own lives. Sometimes we have consciously disobeyed God; at other times we have just ignored him. It amounts to the same thing, rebellion.
See Mk 7:21-23; Rom 3:12; 1 Jn 3:4.
GOD (Repent) In Christ, God tells us that this is not our world to live in according to our selfish desires. It is God's world. Therefore we should stop rebelling against him and live in the world the way he has designed us to live in it. He calls us to come into his 'Kingdom', that is to submit to his kingly rule in our lives.
See Mt 7:21; Mk 1:14,15; Acts 17:30.
WHAT IF I DON'T? (Unforgiven) If we refuse God's offer of forgiveness and reconciliation, we will remain unforgiven and unreconciled. Ultimately, rebels will be overthrown.
See Mt 7:23,26,27; Rom 1:18; 2 Thess 1:8,9.
WHAT IF I DO? (Forgiven) If we stop rebelling and bring our lives under God's rule, he treats us as though we had never rebelled against him. He accepts us wholeheartedly because Jesus in dying on the cross took upon himself the punishment we deserve. A whole new relationship with God then opens up. We become his friends and are adopted into his family and will live with him for all eternity after death in the glorious new world that is coming.
See Jn 3:16; Rom 6:23, 8:1,15; Col 2:14.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)





