tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post5207411919921413625..comments2023-11-09T02:43:59.293-08:00Comments on Christian Medical Comment: The Archbishop’s speech on gay marriage – needless concessions and a lost opportunityPeter Saundershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17222354018504253042noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-6278560162116268272013-08-01T10:07:20.594-07:002013-08-01T10:07:20.594-07:00Samson laid down his life on behalf of the Israeli...Samson laid down his life on behalf of the Israelites: Jesus laid down His life for both the children of Israel and for us Gentiles. He received His life back again. No suicide.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061124305197339710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-58639996287787629382013-08-01T09:41:42.043-07:002013-08-01T09:41:42.043-07:00Well done, Dr Saunders.Well done, Dr Saunders.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061124305197339710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-26803024069223632842013-08-01T08:34:15.582-07:002013-08-01T08:34:15.582-07:00No church is perfect, whether it's Rome or our...No church is perfect, whether it's Rome or our present C of E. <br />Nowhere in the Gospels did Jesus venerate His mother and neither should we. <br />'Woman, what have I to do with you'. <br />'Blessed is the woman whose paps you sucked' - in response Jesus declared 'Rather blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it!'<br />On the cross He declared to Mary, before St John the Evangelist: 'Woman behold your son'. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05061124305197339710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-8697021122926943442013-06-17T04:53:28.402-07:002013-06-17T04:53:28.402-07:00Stop arguing and start praying.
It's God's...Stop arguing and start praying.<br />It's God's Church. It's God's world. It's God's Word.<br />His Kingdom is bigger than the issue of marriage, important though this issue is.<br />Should marriage be re-defined in the UK, tragedy though this would be, this will not stop his Kingdom coming!<br />Stand up for marriage by getting down on your knees in prayer!Daren Craddockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10188332783704224857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-70848681778735671382013-06-15T04:41:10.073-07:002013-06-15T04:41:10.073-07:00As an Anglican I am also very disappointed in the ...As an Anglican I am also very disappointed in the Archbishop's comments. It is very worrying that he seems to support the legitimacy of same sex relationships, just doesn't want them to be put on the same footing as heterosexual marriage. What concerns me more is the intention of some in the Church of England to conduct same sex marriages, should this bill become law. If this took place that would be the "line in the sand" that would cause me to leave the Church of England.Hazelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06669327144450902559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-23734391367617764982013-06-15T02:53:34.778-07:002013-06-15T02:53:34.778-07:00Winston, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but scho...Winston, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but scholars have been discussing the definition of suicide, including the examples you just gave, for centuries. I'm afraid your arguments are neither clever nor original.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12167148545316932402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-64330827646378420442013-06-14T20:10:57.868-07:002013-06-14T20:10:57.868-07:00Surely he should not have used the Homophobic word...Surely he should not have used the Homophobic word .This word was brought into being by Active Homosexuals for Active Homosexuals . A word that is in the vocabulary of a person like Tatchell who hates Christianity and all it stands for . This was a chance for A.O Canterbury to tell the truth tell it as it is that Active Homosexuality is both morally and humanly wrong .That to bring it in to a marriage is an Abomination- that our culture is falling apart with disease spread through Active Homosexuality -.But know first of all he had to butter up the politicians and tell them how bad we have been to even question same sex partnerships .Now they can go after the kids ,just watch the garbage that will filter through in the name of sex education . Hang your head in shame Sir.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17057590233265353490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-71809236596767494402013-06-14T19:57:00.914-07:002013-06-14T19:57:00.914-07:00What an excuse for a spiritual leader .What an excuse for a spiritual leader .Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17057590233265353490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-57707586424984410382013-06-14T16:26:40.610-07:002013-06-14T16:26:40.610-07:00Yes AoCs speech was disheartening, even demoralisi...Yes AoCs speech was disheartening, even demoralising to listento. Clearly someone or something (political correctness?) was pulling his strings. It affirms that the future of Christianity in this country cannot be entrusted to the bishops. Most are simply too worldly, too secularised to provide real spiritual leadership. These men are mostly career clergy and tend to be followers not leadersNickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11439151111850425735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-89166109065288126022013-06-14T15:11:50.180-07:002013-06-14T15:11:50.180-07:00Oh dear, the same old tired Anti-Catholic claptrap...Oh dear, the same old tired Anti-Catholic claptrap, John...<br /><br />I don't know where to start because your post is shot through with nonsense.<br /><br />"schismatic insistence on belief in the Assumption of the BVM is totally unhelpful"<br />Go and read about the real history of the Church, not the white-washed rubbish from the Anglican government department.<br /><br />If you really were devoted to Christ, you would also be devoted to his Mother.<br /><br />Shall we talk about the CofE then?<br />An organisation founded on heresy, murder, property theft, immorality and royal corruption? Say no more really. Heard all the usual lies about the Catholic Church before and your post is nothing new under the sun.James Callenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05593053998889339422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-35176220201378344882013-06-13T02:44:02.616-07:002013-06-13T02:44:02.616-07:00Winston, suicide is where one intentionally kills ...Winston, suicide is where one intentionally kills oneself. Murder is where one is intentionally killed by someone else. It's an important moral distinction.Peter Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17222354018504253042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-37927144255711622572013-06-12T20:59:40.766-07:002013-06-12T20:59:40.766-07:00Make that Jesus *with the assistance of the state*...Make that Jesus *with the assistance of the state*Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14029187310122412297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-362983665386679432013-06-12T20:58:43.115-07:002013-06-12T20:58:43.115-07:00Where did you conclude that euthanasia is wrong us...Where did you conclude that euthanasia is wrong using the bible?<br /><br />Samson and Jesus both committed suicide (Jesus at the hands of the state).Winstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14029187310122412297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-61460467268363513682013-06-12T09:30:39.406-07:002013-06-12T09:30:39.406-07:00The one that despite its sins,which normally have ...The one that despite its sins,which normally have been vastly exaggerated and taken out of context by hostile propaganda, remained and remains faithful to its Founder. The one that in fact declared which books were inspired. In other words the one on whose authority we know which books make up the Bible. At least ponder why it is that the Catholic Church is so clear on all these issues - homosexualty, euthanasia, embrionic stem cell research, divorce, abortion, contraception,the family..... could it just be there is something there? An institution should be judged by looking at those who have lived up to its ideals. Agreed, this is no time to argue amongst ourselves but do consider how Rome gives sound and clear doctrine.Frangelicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00960848807923707382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-42372718160679779012013-06-11T16:49:09.143-07:002013-06-11T16:49:09.143-07:00Which Rome? The one that forced King John to submi...Which Rome? The one that forced King John to submit to the Pope as feudal overlord? The one that launched that instructed Catholics to disregard their oaths of loyalty to Queen Elizabeth and the launched the Spanish Armada against us? The one that encouraged the Jacobite rebellions in the 18th century? The one that burnt William Tyndale for translating the bible into English - only to adopt English as the language of the mass after 400 years of saying no? The one that's lost control of its nuns in America? The one which most Brazilians have abandoned for Protestant churches? Or the one that's abandoned all its bad habits - thus rendering its present judgements totally provisional and as well founded as the claims of most Protestant churches?<br /><br />At its best Rome has done a lot of good - but it's by no means perfect, and its schismatic insistence on belief in the Assumption of the BVM is totally unhelpful, and renders it impossible as a home IMHO.John Davidsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05338595368881294586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-51067040728681185982013-06-11T12:20:41.180-07:002013-06-11T12:20:41.180-07:00Time to come home to Rome.Time to come home to Rome.Frangelicohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00960848807923707382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-26479884112414068942013-06-11T02:42:32.208-07:002013-06-11T02:42:32.208-07:00Continuing the comment on Apb Welby's Lords sp...Continuing the comment on Apb Welby's Lords speech. In my view your most telling criticism is:<br /><br />"On what basis is Welby saying that ‘faithful same sex relationships’ should ‘be recognised and supported with as much dignity and the same legal effect as marriage’? What biblical or church teaching supports this view?"<br /><br />This is precisely the question to ask Welby, for it is a contradiction in terms to conflate "faithful" same sex relationships as being worthy of "recognition and support".<br />In all of the Apbs' speech, and that of other bishops in the H of L, I failed to hear a clear condemnation of SSM being completely wrong in principle, and in fact sinful, and incompatible with biblical teaching on marriage and relationships. I did not hear every Bishop in the debate and therefore stand to be corrected if there was an exception. <br /><br />The Apb's speech in particular failed to convince that he has a principled stand against SSM and gives the impression that like the curate's egg, it is "good in parts".<br /><br />Overall his comments are muted, uncertain, and compromised - " For if the trumpet gives an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself for the battle? graham woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104720099020515294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-5016246742263769492013-06-10T12:12:05.616-07:002013-06-10T12:12:05.616-07:00Peter. Your response to the Apb's speech, and...Peter. Your response to the Apb's speech, and related matters C of E is clinically incisive, robust and fair comment.<br />Of course we do not know what conversations have taken place between the Anglican leadership and the government. I strongly suspect that the EU dimension and SSM may have had a decisive part to play, and that the Apb and episcopal bench may have been persuaded to throw in the white towel. There seems to be something else at work here, apart from their lamentable lack of biblical conviction on the nature of marriage.<br />We do know that EU "equality" laws either strongly influence, or actually direct, our domestic law, and SSM may be no exception. The following comment appears to back this up:<br /><br />""After David Cameron unexpectedly introduced a same sex marriage Bill in the Commons, the Church of England Bishops in the House of Lords suddenly changed within two days, from opposing the Bill to withdrawing opposition with the Bishop of Leicester declaring in a Statement, “If this Bill becomes law, it is crucial that marriage as newly defined is equipped to carry within it as many as possible of the virtues of the understanding of marriage it will replace”.<br />"Why has the Church not sustained its opposition to the view of marriage as traditionally understood according to scripture and the Church’s own teaching?<br /><br />In 2010 the European Parliament voted on a report. The purpose of the report was to compel each member state of the European Union to both initially recognise and legally uphold the effects of civil status documents of another EU State<br /><br /> Paragraph 40 of the report implied recognition of same sex marriage through a back door with the EU requiring all member states to grant all social benefits and other legal effects.<br /> <br />This meant that member states could be forced to indirectly recognise same sex unions as equal to marriage even if such recognition did not exist in the respective country’s legal system. <br />There was an obvious risk to undermine the sovereignty of the member states in family law and specifically the definition of marriage in their own country by shifting a definition of marriage from family law, which is an exclusive competence of member states to procedural law (mutual recognition of civil law documents). This meant a de facto establishment of an EU wide right to same sex marriage<br />"Here again we see the EU, assisted by the Council of Europe, interfering with national Parliaments leading to David Cameron’s readiness and willingness to be compliant for fear of legal consequences and the Church of England withdrawing opposition instead of firmly standing its ground."<br /><br />However, the Apb and bishops should know that Biblical authority, on this as for any other issue upon which it speaks, is a HIGHER authority than that of parliaments or the European Union. <br />graham woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104720099020515294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-92021522233253175392013-06-09T11:04:29.134-07:002013-06-09T11:04:29.134-07:00Dear Mr. Cameron,
Sorry to be such a nuisance, bu...Dear Mr. Cameron,<br /><br />Sorry to be such a nuisance, but I'm afraid we don't completely like your same sex marriage bill. It's not that we don't like gay people, it's just that we're a bit old fashioned.<br /><br />Thanks awfully for not dragging us into court and suing us for discrimination, or disestablishing us, or anything like that. Look, one of our own bishops thinks we're very wrong and compared us to a bunch of slave owners, so we can't be too bad, then, can we?<br /><br />We're going to vote for the bill now anyway so that in the future you will remember how nice we were about it and not be too cross with us.<br /><br />Yours sincerely,<br /><br />The Church of EnglandAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12167148545316932402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-9741645969032114802013-06-09T09:49:03.711-07:002013-06-09T09:49:03.711-07:00John, I would be very interested in hearing what w...John, I would be very interested in hearing what would be a strong reason. If the fact that so called Men of God are causing let's face it, embarrassment to the faith and causing many secularists to rub their hands in glee!! because we're too weak to stand - yes God is not mocked but they are mocking the church and I believe, I hate to say it, justifiably so. We must make a stand and if not now then when. We are called to be Christ's representatives (2 Cor 5:20), but are example up to now has been a sham. SimonPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012490059868833818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-42543193548811839802013-06-09T09:35:55.023-07:002013-06-09T09:35:55.023-07:00The biblical challenge to the assumption that it&#...The biblical challenge to the assumption that it's right to 'come out from among them' is the fact that this is never suggested to any actual group of Christians in the New Testament. The quote is, of course, from Revelation, and is unique. When we are members of a local church, that reality has a far greater significance than modern day individualists allow for; the justification for leaving our existing fellowship must be EXTREMELY strong - this isn't it. Having said that, you need to be confident that you ARE in a church where you are growing spiritually. But if you are, then you should be encouraging your church leaders to challenge their leaders, not just walking out on them.John Davidsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05338595368881294586noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-42450877018222348552013-06-09T01:52:41.600-07:002013-06-09T01:52:41.600-07:00THe bible in Rev 21:8 warns us: "but the cow...THe bible in Rev 21:8 warns us: "but the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” If these men are cowards and say nothing then they are giving in to the unrighteousness of their leaders. This divided Israel, it needed to, in the Old Testament so that God could distinguish the godly from the ungodly. THis needs to happen and needs to happen sooner rather than later.SimonPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012490059868833818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-79618323875748692252013-06-09T01:42:26.074-07:002013-06-09T01:42:26.074-07:00THis is exactly what they need to do, showing true...THis is exactly what they need to do, showing true leadership. Rom 1:24-32 doesn't just challenge the perpetrator but also those who accept the perpetrator's actions and in effect - do nothing. They need to have conviction and show themeselves as men of principle. I think the biggest problem with the CofE is that it is state - led and not God-led. I believe the first step must be that the church needs to become disestablished. When this happens, then these Godly men who want to preach the gospel as written in the Word of God, can do so more freely and can then call these bishops (these heretics) to account and get them excommunicated if they will not repent.SimonPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012490059868833818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-5246850412914684002013-06-08T23:48:15.629-07:002013-06-08T23:48:15.629-07:00I think John's point is that there are many in...I think John's point is that there are many individual Anglican churches which are preaching and living the Gospel. I accept that and don't think Christians should leave those churches. <br /><br />What I have difficulty in understanding is why they don't seem to feel it necessary to hold their wider leadership - including the archbishop - to account. They are tolerating people who teach heresy and have allowed them to get into positions of leadership. That, I see, is the main problem with the Church of England.Peter Saundershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17222354018504253042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2654455663519806899.post-38703644352042680452013-06-08T16:08:26.078-07:002013-06-08T16:08:26.078-07:00If the church is truly apostate and its leadership...If the church is truly apostate and its leadership is clearly not following the truth then isn't a case using Jesus' words - "if a blind man leads a blind man both will fall into a pit. It is clear from your statements Peter that the leadership of the Church of England are indeed, blind guides. If we wish to be followers of Christ as I did when The then Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins, denied the resurrection of Christ, I decided then and there that I could no longer associate myself with the CofE and have now joined a church which is preaching the gospel and is striving to live it as well in their daily lives.<br />SimonPhillipshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12012490059868833818noreply@blogger.com